Nerding out on Brakes shall we? Not another tech deraliment

Jonathon Simonetti 5/9/2024 10:25am
5/9/2024 10:25am
sethimus wrote:

how would you rank all the high end brakes you tested and why?

Shinook wrote:
I'll pre-empt the inevitable butthurt about the below by saying that all of these options are good. They are all powerful, all reasonably easy enough to...

I'll pre-empt the inevitable butthurt about the below by saying that all of these options are good. They are all powerful, all reasonably easy enough to work on, and all (mostly) consistent. I mainly say that because people adore Saints and I found them to be the weaker in almost every category compared to others, but still good. 

I'd also caveat that "power" is somewhat misunderstood IMO. Most people don't have the means to measure overall, total available power, rather they base it on how the brakes feel. A brake like the Maximas may have a ton of overall power, but the Mavens feel more powerful because the power comes on sooner as the brake ramps up. This will also be relative to your weight and how you want the levers to feel.

I posted something similar in another thread, but I'll go into more detail. For reference, I'm 220lbs on a ~33lb steel 29er.

Power: Maven >= Radic > Intend > Maxima > Hope T4 V4 > Dominion > MT7 > Saint - The Mavens have a very quick power deliver,y once the pads engage the difference between "I'm slowing down" and "I'm skidding" is miniscule. This can be dialed in with contact point adjust, but they apply power more progressively than any other brake I've tried. The Radics have a really similar feel with a lighter lever, but feel a bit more controlled and have less deadstroke, basically instant engagement, I ran these closer to the bar than any other brake. The Intends are very close to that feel, but with a much lighter feeling lever and overall better feel, although they lack contact adjust so you can't tweak them as easily. Both Maximas and T4 V4s have enormous power available, but it comes on later in the stroke and is harder to define in lever feel and requires a longer lever throw to obtain. They are the epitome of having a smooth, light, powerful brake that requires a longer lever stroke to get there. I love Dominions and I loved the MT7s, but the power comes on later especially with the latter. I didn't find Saints to be as powerful but they are good enough. 

Consistency: Basically all of the above were consistent with two exceptions. I have been able to fade Dominions on long, flowy descents. I've torched them more than a few times with no change in lever feel, but I've had them turn mushy a few times and that's not an issue I had with most of the others. On the Saints, I had the wandering bite point problems I had with every other Shimano brake, but only in cold and I think this is, in part, due to brake technique where two quick pulls of the lever causes it to change. Some don't have this problem, I did. The rest were very consistent, rarely changed lever feel, and I had no issues in hot/cold or with fade provided they were bled properly. The Mavens did exhibit some wandering bite point (BADLY) when they were new out of the box, but doing the piston massage procedure did away with it. 

Lever feel: (For me and what I'm after) Intend > Radic > Hope > Maxima > Dominion > MT7 > Saint > Maven - The Maven lever feel isn't as bad as people act like it is, but it is firm compared to the others. It's not that it is unusable or awful, just that the other options are smoother and require less force through the deadstroke (I'd argue the engaged force to power is better than some are acting with the Mavens though). I loved the feel of them overall, but the stiffer spring is off putting compared to others. The MT7s were very consistent and smooth, but power came on later than I liked, the first few rides on them I blew a few corners because I kept expecting them to grab faster coming from the Radics. The Hope and Maximas have a lot in common, it's a very light feeling lever even when the pads engage, but it can be somewhat vague if you aren't used to them compared to others, you don't get that 'wall' of sorts you do with other brakes, it is light all the way through and that can take some adjustment. The Radics have a super smooth lever but engage almost immediately with no deadstroke. The Intends are the best of the above, moderate deadstroke, even power delivery, smooth/light lever feel, easy to identify the brake point, and good ergonomics. My preference in this category is a quick power delivery, but lighter riders or those who want a longer lever throw might place Hope or Trickstuff higher.

Aesthetics: They are all nice except the Mavens. They are the ugliest thing on my bike at the moment and I'm dying to get them off. It's very off putting for an otherwise great brake. The Trickstuff, Hope, and Intends are all beautiful in their own unique ways. 

Cockpit: The Mavens suffer from the reservoir sitting too close to the bar. This means controls may not fit where you want because it interferes with the reservoir being so damn close. Otherwise you have a lot of positioning with the lever. The Dominion and MT7 share a lot of similarities in this regard as well, but aren't super notable otherwise, you have plenty of lateral movement across the bar to position them and your controls, although I prefer hinged levers. The Hopes have a super long lever blade that might interfere, but I found that they sat so far inboard it didn't interfere with my other controls. The Radics, Intends, and Maximas all have a lever brace on the reservoir. This is a good thing that prevents flex, BUT it also means that some controls won't sit properly outboard of the clamp due to the lever brace being in the way, this is particularly noticeable on the Radics. The Maximas are generally OK in this regard, but the lever reach adjuster might conflict with controls. The Intends have one possibly fatal flaw I mentioned before: the brace position combined with the usable lever length means using long grips like Meaty Paws positions the lever so far inboard you can't reach it. I have it near slammed against my grips and it's fine, but this may be a problem for people with certain hand sizes. The Saints have a super nice, rigid feeling clamp that I wish others would adopt. The Mavens will flex slightly under heavy power, IMO they should've adopted a stronger clamp, Matchmaker just isn't it.

Install/Bleed/etc: The Intends are the cleanest bleeding brake I've used, they are super easy to bleed and install, I also like that they use a reusable fitting that rotates. The Maximas are more work due to the braided hoses, but are pretty easy if you can cut them properly, they also have instructions for aligning the hoses, which is nice. The bleed process for the Maximas is often complained about but I had no issues, I just followed the instructions and it worked out. They should include the bleed block with the brakes, it's absurd they don't. I had issues with the Hope hose kinking and twisting, but other than that it wasn't noteworthy. The Saints, MT7s, Dominions, were all easy to bleed and install, although I know some report problems with alignment on the MT7s and bleed problems, but I didn't have that issue. The Radics are easy as well once you get used to working with the braided hoses, the Bleeding Edge fitting they use is super nice. Finding Bionol in the US is a nightmare though, for those and Trickstuff. The Dominion bleed block includes a half block on one side you can use to work the pistons out safely and clean them, IMO everyone should do this. Hope provides something similar in the form of a STL file you can 3d print, but not everyone will have access to one to do this.

Value: Overall the Dominions are the best combination of everything IMO, if not the best at any one category, but for the price you get a lot of good stuff that makes them the best value IMO. The Trickstuff are a hard sell at $1200 and I think it's dumb they don't include the bleed kit, block, and especially fluid given how hard it is to find. The Intends I feel are a good value considering everything they come with and their performance, but they are hard to obtain and no doubt expensive. Hopes are kindof middling, more expensive than Dominions, but cheaper than the others and offering similar performance/feel. The problem with them is quickly finding parts if you are in the US. You can get MT7s very cheap these days, but I'd still opt for Dominions over them given the other factors. 

If you like running levers close to the bar and want a ton of power, get the Radics, there is no better option with such a short deadstroke to power point. If you want a long, linear, smooth pull with gradual power delivery, Hope T4 V4 or Maximas will get you there, with the Maximas being slightly more complicated to work on and harder to find parts for (this may be a major issue down the line and is my #1 concern with anything Trickstuff). If you want rapid power delivery, the Mavens, Radics, or Intends all fall into that category (in that order), the Mavens require more throw than the Radics but power comes on faster once the pads engage. Overall for most people I usually suggest the Dominions, they are a good average point despite not being the best at everything, they are good at everything and lack the pitfalls of some of the others. For very heavy riders, Mavens or Radics would be my choice. Lighter riders would get along better with the Hopes, Maximas, Dominions, and possibly MT7s. The Intends are a slightly more powerful, easier to work, and refined Dominion, so if you can get them and don't fall into one extreme or the other in how you want them to feel or weight range, they are amazing.

I haven't tried TRP, Beringer, or that brand that's a number (I forget what it is).

This was really cool to read through. My experience with the brakes I have tried is consistent with yours (Mavens are hard to control, Saint bite point wanders, Dominion fade/inconsistency on long descents, long lever throw on MT7). 

I'd never even heard of the Radics, but those are now high on the list of brakes I'd like to try. 

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NicoZesty96
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NicoZesty96 5/9/2024 12:46pm
5/9/2024 12:46pm
TimBud wrote:
Yep, I've been tempted by the Infinity too, but always miss out on them so have given up. And got fed up of seeing them for...

Yep, I've been tempted by the Infinity too, but always miss out on them so have given up. And got fed up of seeing them for resale at a hiked price.

I'd have bought the Maximas if they were ever available when I had spare funds. The DT Swiss acquisition hasn't made things any better in that regard. If anything their distribution and availability has got worse. And they can't blame Brexit or Covid for that anymore.

 

How good would the MT7 Pro be with a CNC'd master though. I'd happily spend money on them if they did that!

The plastic is strong enough unless you have a weird crash or are ham fisted and pay no attention to the torque settings. They do sell some lovely (and expensive) preset torque wrenches that are very good.

In my experience the main seal mostly fails because people reset the pads without cracking the bleed screw open. Or they've overfilled trying to do a sneaky top bleed without removing the pads and using the bleed block.

 

A revised mt7 cnc master, smaller piston for more power, rebuild kits available, lever design same as oak or hc3 that do not rely on the spring

that would be sick

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NicoZesty96
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NicoZesty96 5/9/2024 10:29pm
5/9/2024 10:29pm
sethimus wrote:

how would you rank all the high end brakes you tested and why?

Shinook wrote:
I'll pre-empt the inevitable butthurt about the below by saying that all of these options are good. They are all powerful, all reasonably easy enough to...

I'll pre-empt the inevitable butthurt about the below by saying that all of these options are good. They are all powerful, all reasonably easy enough to work on, and all (mostly) consistent. I mainly say that because people adore Saints and I found them to be the weaker in almost every category compared to others, but still good. 

I'd also caveat that "power" is somewhat misunderstood IMO. Most people don't have the means to measure overall, total available power, rather they base it on how the brakes feel. A brake like the Maximas may have a ton of overall power, but the Mavens feel more powerful because the power comes on sooner as the brake ramps up. This will also be relative to your weight and how you want the levers to feel.

I posted something similar in another thread, but I'll go into more detail. For reference, I'm 220lbs on a ~33lb steel 29er.

Power: Maven >= Radic > Intend > Maxima > Hope T4 V4 > Dominion > MT7 > Saint - The Mavens have a very quick power deliver,y once the pads engage the difference between "I'm slowing down" and "I'm skidding" is miniscule. This can be dialed in with contact point adjust, but they apply power more progressively than any other brake I've tried. The Radics have a really similar feel with a lighter lever, but feel a bit more controlled and have less deadstroke, basically instant engagement, I ran these closer to the bar than any other brake. The Intends are very close to that feel, but with a much lighter feeling lever and overall better feel, although they lack contact adjust so you can't tweak them as easily. Both Maximas and T4 V4s have enormous power available, but it comes on later in the stroke and is harder to define in lever feel and requires a longer lever throw to obtain. They are the epitome of having a smooth, light, powerful brake that requires a longer lever stroke to get there. I love Dominions and I loved the MT7s, but the power comes on later especially with the latter. I didn't find Saints to be as powerful but they are good enough. 

Consistency: Basically all of the above were consistent with two exceptions. I have been able to fade Dominions on long, flowy descents. I've torched them more than a few times with no change in lever feel, but I've had them turn mushy a few times and that's not an issue I had with most of the others. On the Saints, I had the wandering bite point problems I had with every other Shimano brake, but only in cold and I think this is, in part, due to brake technique where two quick pulls of the lever causes it to change. Some don't have this problem, I did. The rest were very consistent, rarely changed lever feel, and I had no issues in hot/cold or with fade provided they were bled properly. The Mavens did exhibit some wandering bite point (BADLY) when they were new out of the box, but doing the piston massage procedure did away with it. 

Lever feel: (For me and what I'm after) Intend > Radic > Hope > Maxima > Dominion > MT7 > Saint > Maven - The Maven lever feel isn't as bad as people act like it is, but it is firm compared to the others. It's not that it is unusable or awful, just that the other options are smoother and require less force through the deadstroke (I'd argue the engaged force to power is better than some are acting with the Mavens though). I loved the feel of them overall, but the stiffer spring is off putting compared to others. The MT7s were very consistent and smooth, but power came on later than I liked, the first few rides on them I blew a few corners because I kept expecting them to grab faster coming from the Radics. The Hope and Maximas have a lot in common, it's a very light feeling lever even when the pads engage, but it can be somewhat vague if you aren't used to them compared to others, you don't get that 'wall' of sorts you do with other brakes, it is light all the way through and that can take some adjustment. The Radics have a super smooth lever but engage almost immediately with no deadstroke. The Intends are the best of the above, moderate deadstroke, even power delivery, smooth/light lever feel, easy to identify the brake point, and good ergonomics. My preference in this category is a quick power delivery, but lighter riders or those who want a longer lever throw might place Hope or Trickstuff higher.

Aesthetics: They are all nice except the Mavens. They are the ugliest thing on my bike at the moment and I'm dying to get them off. It's very off putting for an otherwise great brake. The Trickstuff, Hope, and Intends are all beautiful in their own unique ways. 

Cockpit: The Mavens suffer from the reservoir sitting too close to the bar. This means controls may not fit where you want because it interferes with the reservoir being so damn close. Otherwise you have a lot of positioning with the lever. The Dominion and MT7 share a lot of similarities in this regard as well, but aren't super notable otherwise, you have plenty of lateral movement across the bar to position them and your controls, although I prefer hinged levers. The Hopes have a super long lever blade that might interfere, but I found that they sat so far inboard it didn't interfere with my other controls. The Radics, Intends, and Maximas all have a lever brace on the reservoir. This is a good thing that prevents flex, BUT it also means that some controls won't sit properly outboard of the clamp due to the lever brace being in the way, this is particularly noticeable on the Radics. The Maximas are generally OK in this regard, but the lever reach adjuster might conflict with controls. The Intends have one possibly fatal flaw I mentioned before: the brace position combined with the usable lever length means using long grips like Meaty Paws positions the lever so far inboard you can't reach it. I have it near slammed against my grips and it's fine, but this may be a problem for people with certain hand sizes. The Saints have a super nice, rigid feeling clamp that I wish others would adopt. The Mavens will flex slightly under heavy power, IMO they should've adopted a stronger clamp, Matchmaker just isn't it.

Install/Bleed/etc: The Intends are the cleanest bleeding brake I've used, they are super easy to bleed and install, I also like that they use a reusable fitting that rotates. The Maximas are more work due to the braided hoses, but are pretty easy if you can cut them properly, they also have instructions for aligning the hoses, which is nice. The bleed process for the Maximas is often complained about but I had no issues, I just followed the instructions and it worked out. They should include the bleed block with the brakes, it's absurd they don't. I had issues with the Hope hose kinking and twisting, but other than that it wasn't noteworthy. The Saints, MT7s, Dominions, were all easy to bleed and install, although I know some report problems with alignment on the MT7s and bleed problems, but I didn't have that issue. The Radics are easy as well once you get used to working with the braided hoses, the Bleeding Edge fitting they use is super nice. Finding Bionol in the US is a nightmare though, for those and Trickstuff. The Dominion bleed block includes a half block on one side you can use to work the pistons out safely and clean them, IMO everyone should do this. Hope provides something similar in the form of a STL file you can 3d print, but not everyone will have access to one to do this.

Value: Overall the Dominions are the best combination of everything IMO, if not the best at any one category, but for the price you get a lot of good stuff that makes them the best value IMO. The Trickstuff are a hard sell at $1200 and I think it's dumb they don't include the bleed kit, block, and especially fluid given how hard it is to find. The Intends I feel are a good value considering everything they come with and their performance, but they are hard to obtain and no doubt expensive. Hopes are kindof middling, more expensive than Dominions, but cheaper than the others and offering similar performance/feel. The problem with them is quickly finding parts if you are in the US. You can get MT7s very cheap these days, but I'd still opt for Dominions over them given the other factors. 

If you like running levers close to the bar and want a ton of power, get the Radics, there is no better option with such a short deadstroke to power point. If you want a long, linear, smooth pull with gradual power delivery, Hope T4 V4 or Maximas will get you there, with the Maximas being slightly more complicated to work on and harder to find parts for (this may be a major issue down the line and is my #1 concern with anything Trickstuff). If you want rapid power delivery, the Mavens, Radics, or Intends all fall into that category (in that order), the Mavens require more throw than the Radics but power comes on faster once the pads engage. Overall for most people I usually suggest the Dominions, they are a good average point despite not being the best at everything, they are good at everything and lack the pitfalls of some of the others. For very heavy riders, Mavens or Radics would be my choice. Lighter riders would get along better with the Hopes, Maximas, Dominions, and possibly MT7s. The Intends are a slightly more powerful, easier to work, and refined Dominion, so if you can get them and don't fall into one extreme or the other in how you want them to feel or weight range, they are amazing.

I haven't tried TRP, Beringer, or that brand that's a number (I forget what it is).

that's a really interesting detailed explanation about the most interesting brakes on the market right now, crazy that you manage to have all of these and trying them out, if you want post some pics perhaps of the cockpit area with these brakes if you have any 

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NicoZesty96
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NicoZesty96 5/10/2024 1:14pm
5/10/2024 1:14pm
w4s wrote:

I didn't see this posted yet, what are your thoughts?

https://www.instagram.com/p/C6y6nMOveAy/

meh, it will void any warranty, if you want a sharper feel i'd just get different brakes, plus it would be funny if TRP releases the updated lever we've seen prototyping in dh with the same "adjustment" built in

Allen_Gleckner 5/11/2024 5:08pm
5/11/2024 5:08pm
Jonathon Simonetti wrote:
This was really cool to read through. My experience with the brakes I have tried is consistent with yours (Mavens are hard to control, Saint bite...

This was really cool to read through. My experience with the brakes I have tried is consistent with yours (Mavens are hard to control, Saint bite point wanders, Dominion fade/inconsistency on long descents, long lever throw on MT7). 

I'd never even heard of the Radics, but those are now high on the list of brakes I'd like to try. 

Where do TRPs slot in?

Shinook
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Shinook 5/11/2024 5:36pm
5/11/2024 5:36pm
Allen_Gleckner wrote:

Where do TRPs slot in?

TRP and Formula are the only mainline brands I haven’t tried yet. My wife had Quads on her REEB and they were terrible but I made no attempt to diagnose why. I haven’t tried or felt the DHR Evos, a lot of riders I see on them run their levers super far out, which isn’t something I prefer. 
 

Curas have interested me for a while but I haven’t found a good enough deal on them for me to want to try them. They sound interesting but things I read about them make me feel iffy on whether or not I’d like them. 

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Shinook
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Shinook 5/11/2024 5:38pm
5/11/2024 5:38pm
NicoZesty96 wrote:
that's a really interesting detailed explanation about the most interesting brakes on the market right now, crazy that you manage to have all of these and...

that's a really interesting detailed explanation about the most interesting brakes on the market right now, crazy that you manage to have all of these and trying them out, if you want post some pics perhaps of the cockpit area with these brakes if you have any 

I’ll see if I can dig up some photos. I’ve sold a lot of them but think I took photos before I did

1
CascadeComponents 5/11/2024 5:56pm
5/11/2024 5:56pm
NicoZesty96 wrote:
meh, it will void any warranty, if you want a sharper feel i'd just get different brakes, plus it would be funny if TRP releases the...

meh, it will void any warranty, if you want a sharper feel i'd just get different brakes, plus it would be funny if TRP releases the updated lever we've seen prototyping in dh with the same "adjustment" built in

The intention of it isn’t to make the lever feel sharper. 

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Shinook
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Shinook 5/11/2024 6:58pm
5/11/2024 6:58pm

For the Hope T4 V4 users: I 3d printed some of the Hope open source tools here and thought I'd offer some commentary:

https://www.hopetech.com/open-source-tools/

I had some fitment issues with the Intends I wanted to run on my G1 (the wide caliper strikes the base of the HAWK30X spokes slightly, so I had to rethink the brakes I was using), so I went with Hope T4 V4s as my second choice. I had some issues getting the bleed dialed in, I managed on the first set a while back to install them without bleeding but wasn't so lucky this time.

I printed the bleed block, tuning block (I use 2mm rotors, this appears recommended for all non-3.3mm rotor users), and most importantly, the alignment tool. I hear a lot of complaints about how sensitive these are to alignment and I would suggest anyone that can get this tool printed, it helps a fair bit.

Basically, you bleed with the bleed block, put the tuning block in then compress the pistons and top of the reservoir then seal it. The tuning block appears to slightly extend the pistons and increase fluid volume, which makes them feel a little more responsive with "thinner" (non-3.3mm) rotors. When you install the brakes, you can then stick the alignment tool in and bolt the caliper down, I tried this 3-4 times and it resulted in perfect alignment every time. The 1.8 side works fine with 2mm rotors. I know the alignment is something people complain about a lot, but the fact this exists is somewhat unknown.

I printed with PLA although PETG is recommended, if you really hammer the lever it might crack with PLA, but I didn't have any spare PETG around. 70% infill as recommended.

After doing this, it was a noted improvement over the way they were before. It wasn't dramatic, but it was enough I could pick up on it. 

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Shinook
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Shinook 5/11/2024 7:12pm
5/11/2024 7:12pm
NicoZesty96 wrote:
that's a really interesting detailed explanation about the most interesting brakes on the market right now, crazy that you manage to have all of these and...

that's a really interesting detailed explanation about the most interesting brakes on the market right now, crazy that you manage to have all of these and trying them out, if you want post some pics perhaps of the cockpit area with these brakes if you have any 

Here are a few I have. 

This is the Radic lever, it's a poor angle but the best I have. I circled where you can see the brace. It's not really that invasive, but it can get in the way. Overall it's a good thing, because it allows for a better lever design that reduces flex, but it does take up some space. You can fit stuff inside of the brace, between the bar clamp and the brace, as well.

This is the Maven reservoir, sorry for my troll toes being in the photo:

You get slightly more space the further inboard you go, but I had issues with one of my dropper clamps not fitting where I wanted it due to the reservoir being so close. Your bar geometry may effect this as well. Yes, my shop floor is a bloody mess, that's what happens when you break down 3 bikes and build 2 Unsure

Here is the Maxima, you can see the brace is less intrusive and closer in (sorry it is blurry):

Finally, the Trinity. This is the one that some users with wider grips will need to pay close attention to, the combined length of the lever, pivot point, and brace mean it needs to be closer to the grip than any other lever I've tried. If you use grips like Meaty Paws, they flat out won't work unless you run your hands inboard. Note how close they run to the bar and how little overlap there is of the grip and lever. Once again, please forgive the messy setting. 

 

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TSchafer
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TSchafer 5/11/2024 7:55pm
5/11/2024 7:55pm
Shinook wrote:
For the Hope T4 V4 users: I 3d printed some of the Hope open source tools here and thought I'd offer some commentary: https://www.hopetech.com/open-source-tools/ I had...

For the Hope T4 V4 users: I 3d printed some of the Hope open source tools here and thought I'd offer some commentary:

https://www.hopetech.com/open-source-tools/

I had some fitment issues with the Intends I wanted to run on my G1 (the wide caliper strikes the base of the HAWK30X spokes slightly, so I had to rethink the brakes I was using), so I went with Hope T4 V4s as my second choice. I had some issues getting the bleed dialed in, I managed on the first set a while back to install them without bleeding but wasn't so lucky this time.

I printed the bleed block, tuning block (I use 2mm rotors, this appears recommended for all non-3.3mm rotor users), and most importantly, the alignment tool. I hear a lot of complaints about how sensitive these are to alignment and I would suggest anyone that can get this tool printed, it helps a fair bit.

Basically, you bleed with the bleed block, put the tuning block in then compress the pistons and top of the reservoir then seal it. The tuning block appears to slightly extend the pistons and increase fluid volume, which makes them feel a little more responsive with "thinner" (non-3.3mm) rotors. When you install the brakes, you can then stick the alignment tool in and bolt the caliper down, I tried this 3-4 times and it resulted in perfect alignment every time. The 1.8 side works fine with 2mm rotors. I know the alignment is something people complain about a lot, but the fact this exists is somewhat unknown.

I printed with PLA although PETG is recommended, if you really hammer the lever it might crack with PLA, but I didn't have any spare PETG around. 70% infill as recommended.

After doing this, it was a noted improvement over the way they were before. It wasn't dramatic, but it was enough I could pick up on it. 

Thanks for the Hope tips! I just bought an alignment tool but (like you said) didn’t know there was a tuning block. The alignment tool does help a ton!

Do you mind measuring the width of the tuning block? I have a lot of spare bleed blocks so prolly could just shave one down.

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Shinook
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Shinook 5/11/2024 8:07pm
5/11/2024 8:07pm
TSchafer wrote:
Thanks for the Hope tips! I just bought an alignment tool but (like you said) didn’t know there was a tuning block. The alignment tool does...

Thanks for the Hope tips! I just bought an alignment tool but (like you said) didn’t know there was a tuning block. The alignment tool does help a ton!

Do you mind measuring the width of the tuning block? I have a lot of spare bleed blocks so prolly could just shave one down.

It's 11mm thick. Same shape as the bleed block.

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charlietelesco
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charlietelesco 5/11/2024 8:27pm
5/11/2024 8:27pm

Since Radic's are having their day in the Sun here, I have an extra set for sale - mineral oil. on the "other" site 2022 Radic Kaha Brakes For Sale (pinkbike.com)

 

My perception is that the Maxima's feel more powerful and have a more intuitive power delivery than the Radics which have a very strong but more linear power similar to a stronger Code RSC or Code/Cascade combo.  I am selling these Radics as I got another set of Maxima's.

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Shinook
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Shinook 5/11/2024 8:39pm
5/11/2024 8:39pm

The Radics do require more lever force to get power down than the Maximas do, but they also engage faster. I could run the Radics closer to the bar than any other brake I tried, but that may not work for some. One of the few brakes I felt really needed a contact point adjuster to appeal to a wider audience. The lever reach adjuster was also kindof a pain to use.  

There were also reports of issues on IG by one user, I can't recall the name. Said they couldn't get a good bleed and they had issues with the bite point wandering. I didn't have those problems but the bleed on mine did arrive incomplete, I had to rebleed them right away. Once I did, I had no issues. 

It's one guy assembling and shipping them out, I thought they were very good but not something I'd go out of my way to recommend to everyone. They are headed in the right direction though IMO. 

TSchafer
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TSchafer 5/12/2024 7:47am
5/12/2024 7:47am
TSchafer wrote:
Thanks for the Hope tips! I just bought an alignment tool but (like you said) didn’t know there was a tuning block. The alignment tool does...

Thanks for the Hope tips! I just bought an alignment tool but (like you said) didn’t know there was a tuning block. The alignment tool does help a ton!

Do you mind measuring the width of the tuning block? I have a lot of spare bleed blocks so prolly could just shave one down.

Shinook wrote:

It's 11mm thick. Same shape as the bleed block.

Thank you! Cheers for your A+ nerding in this thread, the photos are sweet to see too.

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NicoZesty96
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NicoZesty96 5/12/2024 12:49pm
5/12/2024 12:49pm
TSchafer wrote:
Thanks for the Hope tips! I just bought an alignment tool but (like you said) didn’t know there was a tuning block. The alignment tool does...

Thanks for the Hope tips! I just bought an alignment tool but (like you said) didn’t know there was a tuning block. The alignment tool does help a ton!

Do you mind measuring the width of the tuning block? I have a lot of spare bleed blocks so prolly could just shave one down.

Shinook wrote:

It's 11mm thick. Same shape as the bleed block.

TSchafer wrote:

Thank you! Cheers for your A+ nerding in this thread, the photos are sweet to see too.

yeah let's keep it up, news, experiences, own pictures, tips, links, everything interesting and nerd about brakes is welcome!

 

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Shinook
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Shinook 5/12/2024 1:40pm
5/12/2024 1:40pm Edited Date/Time 5/12/2024 1:44pm

I mentioned spoke clearance with the Intends earlier, this kindof shows it

it’s a non issue with standard steel spokes, but using anything with a larger diameter than normal and you risk hitting the caliper. It’s a beefy boi at 43mm wide. It’s 16mm from pad cutout to the outside towards the wheel. Most others I measured were 38ish total and 12-14mm from pad cutout

I ran several wheels and had no issue except for the HAWK30X that are 4.5mm at the base. They just barely hit. 

 

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Robstyle
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Robstyle 5/13/2024 12:37am
5/13/2024 12:37am

Gave the trickstuff maven combo a decent run. I have a track that will make most brakes fade and will expose problems real quick. 

I kept the front pure maxima to ensure I defo would have a working brake at one end lol. 

The triven combo went pretty good to be fair, it's got good modulation the top was muddy and icy and no issue keeping things in check.  But of no surprise to me the organic pads left the chat pretty quickly. Lever has more throw than I'd like, no surprises there either.

 

A fun experiement none the less. 

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NicoZesty96
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NicoZesty96 5/13/2024 12:48am
5/13/2024 12:48am
Shinook wrote:
I mentioned spoke clearance with the Intends earlier, this kindof shows it it’s a non issue with standard steel spokes, but using anything with a larger...

I mentioned spoke clearance with the Intends earlier, this kindof shows it

it’s a non issue with standard steel spokes, but using anything with a larger diameter than normal and you risk hitting the caliper. It’s a beefy boi at 43mm wide. It’s 16mm from pad cutout to the outside towards the wheel. Most others I measured were 38ish total and 12-14mm from pad cutout

I ran several wheels and had no issue except for the HAWK30X that are 4.5mm at the base. They just barely hit. 

 

holy, i thought the V4 calipers were the widest, but just on the outside i assume, they look wide on the left while intend seems to be equally wide on both side, i'm wondering if it would be a problem with Industry Nine System wheels, i'm currently torn between the Intends and the Hopes T4V4 for my next brakes, 0 rush but thinking about it 

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NicoZesty96
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NicoZesty96 5/13/2024 12:50am
5/13/2024 12:50am
Robstyle wrote:
Gave the trickstuff maven combo a decent run. I have a track that will make most brakes fade and will expose problems real quick.  I kept...

Gave the trickstuff maven combo a decent run. I have a track that will make most brakes fade and will expose problems real quick. 

I kept the front pure maxima to ensure I defo would have a working brake at one end lol. 

The triven combo went pretty good to be fair, it's got good modulation the top was muddy and icy and no issue keeping things in check.  But of no surprise to me the organic pads left the chat pretty quickly. Lever has more throw than I'd like, no surprises there either.

 

A fun experiement none the less. 

So full Trick is still better right?

as an experiment i would love to try a set of hopes v4 but with different seals to run Mineral oil

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Robstyle
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Robstyle 5/13/2024 1:28am
5/13/2024 1:28am
NicoZesty96 wrote:
So full Trick is still better right? as an experiment i would love to try a set of hopes v4 but with different seals to run...

So full Trick is still better right?

as an experiment i would love to try a set of hopes v4 but with different seals to run Mineral oil

I think so yeah. 

I do like how the maven caliper stays bolted on during bleeding and bleeding edge is way better too. The bleed port is a natural high spot too which is great. 

I do wonder how much of a bitch it will be to diagnose a sticky piston further down the track in a maven it's just not as easy to see in. 

 

Maximas have a really robust bleed process, it's a bit of fluffing around though. Not only do you remove the levers and ziptie them vertical, you also cycle the pistons completely out to a 4mm spacer of sorts (I've ground down some old pads to 2mm each that work mint). You apply vacuum as you press the pistons back in to get any air trapped behind the pistons. Essentially you get perfect bleeds, albeit not quickly.

 

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Primoz
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Primoz 5/13/2024 4:18am
5/13/2024 4:18am Edited Date/Time 5/13/2024 4:20am

FWIW, bleeding Codes by applying vacuum on both sides cyclically is a long and tedious process, but results in a very good bleed that is good for years of riding. Factory bleeds have, in my experience, always been lacking and resulted in a wandering bite point (long lever throw on first application and then it became firm once the system was preloaded).

As long as the system is reliable, a tedious (but reliable) process is not an issue as you will only rarely have to perform it. And as long as you are reasonably competent and do it at home where you can take the time needed. I doubt there are many shop mechanics that take the time to bleed Codes really properly for example. Nobody is gonna pay 100+ USD for a brake bleed.

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Jonathon Simonetti 5/13/2024 9:32am
5/13/2024 9:32am
Primoz wrote:
FWIW, bleeding Codes by applying vacuum on both sides cyclically is a long and tedious process, but results in a very good bleed that is good...

FWIW, bleeding Codes by applying vacuum on both sides cyclically is a long and tedious process, but results in a very good bleed that is good for years of riding. Factory bleeds have, in my experience, always been lacking and resulted in a wandering bite point (long lever throw on first application and then it became firm once the system was preloaded).

As long as the system is reliable, a tedious (but reliable) process is not an issue as you will only rarely have to perform it. And as long as you are reasonably competent and do it at home where you can take the time needed. I doubt there are many shop mechanics that take the time to bleed Codes really properly for example. Nobody is gonna pay 100+ USD for a brake bleed.

Agreed, the factory bleed on many bikes seem to be a bit lazy. I think centering the pistons in the caliper makes an even bigger difference assuming the brakes are bled correctly. Basically centering the body of the caliper, pulling the lever a few times, and pressing against whichever pistons come out first to allow the opposite side to come out the same distance and eliminate the rotor from flexing between sides. 90% of spongy brakes I work on are from the rotor flexing from unequal pad contact. Equalizing the input from pistons on both sides has made the bite point both instant and much stronger on my Codes and Mavens. 

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Primoz
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Primoz 5/13/2024 10:27am
5/13/2024 10:27am

Hm good point actually as the rotor deflecting first bends it over, then the carriers need to go into an S shape (requiring much more force compared to simple deflection bending) before proper pad contact occurs. This makes a contact point into a contact line. 

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TEAMROBOT
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TEAMROBOT 5/13/2024 10:34am
5/13/2024 10:34am Edited Date/Time 5/13/2024 10:35am
Jonathon Simonetti wrote:
Agreed, the factory bleed on many bikes seem to be a bit lazy. I think centering the pistons in the caliper makes an even bigger difference...

Agreed, the factory bleed on many bikes seem to be a bit lazy. I think centering the pistons in the caliper makes an even bigger difference assuming the brakes are bled correctly. Basically centering the body of the caliper, pulling the lever a few times, and pressing against whichever pistons come out first to allow the opposite side to come out the same distance and eliminate the rotor from flexing between sides. 90% of spongy brakes I work on are from the rotor flexing from unequal pad contact. Equalizing the input from pistons on both sides has made the bite point both instant and much stronger on my Codes and Mavens. 

As a longtime Shimano brake user, I have the same sentiment. It's amazing how much you can change brake lever feel by getting the caliper really really lined up and also by truing the rotor well. When you're manually pushing back on pistons to balance their speed, are you doing it with the rotor in? Or using the rotor to center the caliper and then pulling the rotor out for dinking with individual pistons?

FWIW I've ridden or pulled brakes on many of Jonny's bikes and the lever feel is always sharp and balanced. Top notch. The man knows what he's doing.

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Shinook
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Shinook 5/13/2024 2:27pm
5/13/2024 2:27pm

So this thread and the Intends not working on my bike has me considering some options I haven’t tried yet.

on the boutique side, has anyone tried 612 or Beringer Br4ve? The former seems to be very close to Maximas and the latter seems to use larger pistons all around (18/18/10.15)

I am Cura 4 curious too. How are they with the FCS levers? Is there a lot of dead stroke and how quickly does power come on? They seemed to do well in the Enduro test but only with aftermarket pads 

Shinook
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Shinook 5/13/2024 3:40pm
5/13/2024 3:40pm
NicoZesty96 wrote:
holy, i thought the V4 calipers were the widest, but just on the outside i assume, they look wide on the left while intend seems to...

holy, i thought the V4 calipers were the widest, but just on the outside i assume, they look wide on the left while intend seems to be equally wide on both side, i'm wondering if it would be a problem with Industry Nine System wheels, i'm currently torn between the Intends and the Hopes T4V4 for my next brakes, 0 rush but thinking about it 

I just sold my last set of these, but I doubt it would. Measure the spoke and see, the BERD HAWK30X spokes are 4.5mm at the base and they just barely hit. The system spokes I9 uses I believe are smaller diameter, but I'd check to be sure. 

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1llumA
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1llumA 5/13/2024 4:13pm
5/13/2024 4:13pm
Shinook wrote:
So this thread and the Intends not working on my bike has me considering some options I haven’t tried yet. on the boutique side, has anyone...

So this thread and the Intends not working on my bike has me considering some options I haven’t tried yet.

on the boutique side, has anyone tried 612 or Beringer Br4ve? The former seems to be very close to Maximas and the latter seems to use larger pistons all around (18/18/10.15)

I am Cura 4 curious too. How are they with the FCS levers? Is there a lot of dead stroke and how quickly does power come on? They seemed to do well in the Enduro test but only with aftermarket pads 

Had both Cura2 and Cura4 and there is more free stroke on the cura4 with the normal lever than the Cura2 but the FCS lever bridge that gap according to this review and Cura2 is known to have very little dead stroke:

https://nsmb.com/articles/formula-cura-brakes-two-piece-lever-blade-upgrade/

Trickstuff power pad are great on cura4, noisy as soon as there a bit of moisture and at big mountains wear rate can probably be measured in laps but bite and power is very good compared to the stock organic and metallic pads.

1
Jonathon Simonetti 5/13/2024 4:21pm
5/13/2024 4:21pm Edited Date/Time 5/13/2024 4:36pm
Jonathon Simonetti wrote:
Agreed, the factory bleed on many bikes seem to be a bit lazy. I think centering the pistons in the caliper makes an even bigger difference...

Agreed, the factory bleed on many bikes seem to be a bit lazy. I think centering the pistons in the caliper makes an even bigger difference assuming the brakes are bled correctly. Basically centering the body of the caliper, pulling the lever a few times, and pressing against whichever pistons come out first to allow the opposite side to come out the same distance and eliminate the rotor from flexing between sides. 90% of spongy brakes I work on are from the rotor flexing from unequal pad contact. Equalizing the input from pistons on both sides has made the bite point both instant and much stronger on my Codes and Mavens. 

TEAMROBOT wrote:
As a longtime Shimano brake user, I have the same sentiment. It's amazing how much you can change brake lever feel by getting the caliper really...

As a longtime Shimano brake user, I have the same sentiment. It's amazing how much you can change brake lever feel by getting the caliper really really lined up and also by truing the rotor well. When you're manually pushing back on pistons to balance their speed, are you doing it with the rotor in? Or using the rotor to center the caliper and then pulling the rotor out for dinking with individual pistons?

FWIW I've ridden or pulled brakes on many of Jonny's bikes and the lever feel is always sharp and balanced. Top notch. The man knows what he's doing.

I'll use the rotor to do it with the wheel installed. It's important to make sure the pistons are moving in and out easily before pressing against the rotor to center the pistons, otherwise you'll just be sitting there bending the rotor. On a new/lightly used set of brakes, I'll do some form of the "piston massage" procedure by removing the wheel and cycling the pads in and out with a tire lever or flat head screwdriver to isolate which set of pistons are moving. On a used brake I'll do the same but remove the pads to clean up the edges of the pistons with rubbing alcohol on a q-tip.

With the pistons fully retracted I'll reinstall the wheel and watch the pads/rotor while doing a single lever pull at a time. Once I see one pad touch the rotor I push against it and pull the lever again until the other side meets the rotor. It's important to push against one side or the other before any real pressure builds at the lever so you dont have to fight it as much, once they're grabbing equally I'll dial in the pad contact adjustment. 

I've had this work on brakes that go from pulling to the bar with no power to the shortest throw possible and full power just with the bike flipped upside down in a parking lot between laps.

6

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