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According to @schwalbai there are no radial Dirty Dans planned. Maybe it’s just the new „Diagonal“ casing?
Tell that to Amaury
I thought "PRO" referred only to the Radial line but I think I'm wrong.... I'm still confused about the naming changes.
Pretty much every Schwalbe sponsored dh pro rides the dirty dan instead of the Shredda. And a lot of non schwalbe sponsored athletes do so too, like Loic for example
Understandable mixup.
We use Schwalbe PRO line to identify our highest quality tires that our Pros also race on.
Schwalbe Line (missing the "Pro") is the trusted value option. You'd find this in a tire like the Gravity Tacky Chan, which has a TLR gravity diagonal casing with a bit more rubber/laps for support, but still uses the same Soft rubber compound you'd find on a PRO tire.
Previously we did three levels of quality; Active, Performance, Evolution. But the Schwalbe brand is making a large effort to simplify and reduce SKU counts.
Going from 3 product levels down to 2 will be better in the long run, but change isn't immediate so i understand the confusion.
Enough corpo context, it just so happens that this updated naming convention came out the same time as our Radial tires.
There are many Diagonal Schwalbe Pro tires (Tacky Chan, Rick XC tire, etc).
Radial tires will say "radial" on the hot patch.
No immediate plan for a Dirty Dan Radial afaik.
Like others have mentioned, the Shredda F or R is more than capable enough for most riders.
Hi!
I have read most of the last pages of this topic but I am still a bit lost. Made a post on Reddit too, but found this topic which seems to rassemble some tire nerds just like me.
Some context : I own a Scott Spark RC in 120/120mm. I weight 70kg. I loved my previous years as downhiller but some wounds told me to calm down a bit... so I have sold all my bikes (latest for the pedal days was a Mondraker Foxy but I did not use it enough and my new area is not technical enough).
So now I ride something that I called XC before and that marketing consider now as Downcountry I think : fast on the descent but also fast on the climbs. I like when it is steep and rough, and I will need something versatile for this spare set (rocks, hard packed dirt and roots, probably not mud but should accept a bit of moisture)
Currently my Spark is set with Schwalbe Racing Ray/Ralph in 2.35 which are ok for most of my ride around my house. But I plan to come back from time to time to the mountain and I also need those tires to play with friends and their All Mountain/Enduro bikes. So a set of tire that can pedal but gan give me enough confidence to have fun downhill.
I narrowed my research to those sets, and I am now wondering what would suit best to me :
- Schwalbe Tacky Chan Race Pro Soft / Romy Race Pro Mid : 1025g/970g in diagonal casing, weight is acceptable. I thing the Race Pro casing should be enough, Radial versions are heavier but seems interesting
- Continental Kryptotal Fr Trail Soft / Xynotal Trail Endurance : 1060g/1060g, just a touch heavier but does it mean more grip? I have read some difficulties with sealing and wobble on the casing, that Endurance compound is too hard, and some said that a Magnotal would be better at the rear
- Pirelli Scorpion Enduro M / R in ProWall casing : 990g/940g read some nice reviews about them but the side knobs arrangement is unusual
- Maxxis Assegai / Dissector 2 : heavier set, at least with Maxxgrip for the front, maybe too much for a 120/120mm bike? I fear that the Dissector will not suit me at the front, and the Forecaster 2 feels too light for me (I rode only the gen1, maybe it's on my head)
- Specialized Butcher T9 / Purgatory T7 : 1050g/930g I liked the Butcher on Bike Parks, a bit less on the Enduro, and the Purgatory seems draggy by design
Do you have any comment on those combos?
I’m pretty confused still. Am I right in saying each tyre has a value of each of the following?
Yep you got it. Thanks for hanging on.
It's a bit of a necessary evil when a item like tires has so many variables.
To what extent are you looking to trade speed for grip? Because it seems like you are trying to go from XC race tires, to almost DH tires (Assegai maxxgrip). Which imo is kind of weird, like kind of defeats the purpose of an xc bike, like I get that it can still be fun but... isn't an xc bike about speed? Maybe you want trail tires?
Tires generally are built with 3 main aspects: Tread pattern, rubber compound, and casing.
Rubber compound is the thing that literally grips the material it touches. Grippier compounds are generally slower; most rolling resistance comes from the compound you choose. This is primarily what makes a tire "slow" or "fast". Your current Racing Ray/Racing Ralph (RaRa) if its a typical xc race tire (super race compound) it is very fast, one of the fastest xc race tires out there, and the grip is... ok. Any tire in T9, MaxxGrip, Supersoft, etc is going to feel DRAMTICALLY slower. Because it is. You could add like 30+ watts of rolling resistance. As most people pedal around 200w that's a lot. It's a balance.
Casing is primarily a durability and feel thing. Do you live in the land of razor rocks? Probably need a burlier casing. Do you live in the land of roots or fist sized loose rocks? Probably want the tire to conform to that to help with grip and stability; you want a more flexible casing (this is what Radial is trying to achieve). But you don't want it to be too flexible, or on harder surfaces/more load it can feel squirmy to the point of being scary. It's a balance.
Tread pattern is really a conditions thing. Think soil type . Is it super hardpack like concrete? Is it loose and sandy? Is it mud? Think of it this way: on the road you want slicks because it puts more rubber in contact with the ground, which is better. Knobs on the road not only hurt your contact patch, but also can wiggle around and add instability. However in loose sandy soil, you need the knobs because they dig in and provide grip by interlocking with the soil. A lot of the grip comes from the knob in that situation, and less from the compound. But lets say you get off the sandy soil and onto a steep rock slab, you'll probably want that grippier compound again, but not the knobs so much. It's a balance.
This is why there are a zillion tire options. It's mostly about finding what suits YOUR riding, not what someone else does somewhere else. Does a maxxgrip assegai have more grip than a maxxgrip dissector? More of a conditions question. So if you feel that the dissector isn't enough for you, maybe it's because you're not riding hardpack in the mountains. Like the other combo you mentioned, xynotal vs kryptotal, I think the xynotal is overall noticeably better on hardpack. Which makes sense, it's a hardpack specific tire. But I would stay away from the endurance compound because I think it's kind of bad according to conti's own charts.
Personally I think continental and schwalbe are kind of leading the way on tire technology right now. So to simplify your search just look at schwalbe if the radial thing interests you, or conti if you don't care about that because they are clear on what their tires are for (whereas schwalbe just says everything they make is an "all rounder").
A quite good affordable trail tire combo (splits the difference between xc and dh) is the specialized ground control. T7 if you want a bit more grip, T5 if you want a more speed. They are a great all-round tread pattern.
Weight is... not really that important. And I am a partially reformed insane weight weenie 🤣 The thing that's gonna make your climbing suck isn't the weight, it's mostly the compound. That weight will hurt, but a magical 600g maxxis assegai maxxgrip is still going to suuuuck to pedal compared to your RaRas.
Wow, thanks for the -long!- answer.
I should have made it more clear I suppose. I was not searching for informations about the casing/compound… influence on my riding, but how those sets might compare each others.
Not saying that I do not agree, just that I am a are of all of that! I rode DH for most years, and kept a smaller bike (130/140/160) on the side for the rest of my MTB rides in the mountains. Now that I have stopped DH and moved to a smaller bike because of flat surroundings, I am in a « tire zone » where I do not have much experience (it was more All In before that for me). So I need more of a compairison than profund explanation
Yeah the HR3 being such a race oriented, mixed conditions tire the priority specs were the high grip options. Because this tire is so good in the dry and dusty conditions as well it's on our radar to look at a more durable option at some point.
The new pattern will be a hit hopefully; it's been a bit of a special project of mine and it's been really fun to see the race success and the bit of hype in the prerelease.
MaxxTerra High Roller 3 would be great for the e-bike crowd. Race tires are cool, but e-bike tires are (I’m guessing) what pays the bills.
Yup, I'm enjoying the TC but after 3 weeks on my ebike, the rear knobs are almost worn down through the sipes already (Soft rubber), back edge of side knobs is starting to tear off. Doing a bike trip next weekend and that'll probably finish it off. It's a nice tire but I will almost certainly go back to Maxxis or Conti for the rear.
Unsure what kind of riding you are doing on your e-bike, but there are better options if you are looking to prioritze tread longevity on the rear (Eddy Current Radial, Albert, etc).
The Tacky Chan was desinged to be a DH race tire. It will certainley work on E-bikes, but it sounds likes a tread pattern with a bit more meat on the tread cap would serve you better?
I ride a lot of quick, steep laps on trails that are a mix of hardpack and loose sandy dirt. There's a lot of coarse sand in both that is highly abrasive. Tight spacing tires like the Albert do not work well in it as they float in the loose rather than punch into it. I also dislike the Assegai and Kryptotal Front for the same reason. The best performing tires for my trails are the HR3, TC, Argotal, DHR2, and Kryptotal Rear - pros and cons to each. The rubber compound for the rear seems to make the biggest difference (lifespan of Conti Soft is at least a full season, MaxxTerra & Conti Super Soft a few months, MaxxGrip & Soft a few weeks to a month).
Here's a side by side comparison of a brand new TC Trail Pro (left) vs. 3 week old TC Grav Pro (right). Yes, I corner a lot harder to the left than to the right. 😄
I'm 100% with you. I'm flat out disappointed by the wear on my rear Soft TC. I ride the same conditions and experienced the same wear... the soft is just too soft to hold up on ANY type if bike. If the TC was meant for purely race runs only as stated above then that should be somewhere in the tons of new marketing Schwalbe has put out recently.
I think with the MK1 tacky chan they marketed it more like that. But it’s pretty obvious the tread pattern wears quickly. Openly spaced treads with sharp braking edges will always wear pretty quickly
Without whipping out a ruler is the spacing all that different than a DHR 2? My position would be more about the "soft" seeming to be very, very soft for a rear tire. An Albert Soft held up better but not substantially more. This is my first time trying a TC so maybe I should have expected this? Any who... off to try an EC radial.
It’s been 3-4 years now, but I stopped running Magic Mary’s because the wear rate was crazy.
Thank you to whoever recommended the High Roller for Colorado trails. This might be my new favorite front tire.
Speak for yourself, got 1,500km's out of a rear mounted non radial trail casing super soft TC over a span of an extremely dry PNW summer. The knobs are not tall to begin with, though the terrain/riding conditions sound like they have more to do with tire lifespan than the actual tire.
In my experience Schwalbe wears better than Maxxis. But I live in the PNW where the trails aren't particularly hard on tires.
My soft TC radial on the front isn't showing excessive wear.
The dirt up in the PNW is like silk compared to the crap we have down here, which is like 60 grit sandpaper. (I grew up near Seattle, and work in a construction field that deals with boring/excavating.) That, coupled with people wanting to build and ride steep PNW-like trails down here, is a recipe for tire abuse.
Same here. Schwalbe soft holds up better than Maxxterra. Maxxterra rounds off quicker and the sideknobs peel off more than on the schwalbe soft tires I had
I’ve always described Maxxis rubber as being porous/low density and that feels like what causes it to wear so quickly. I don’t know how much truth there is to that, anyone else have a similar thought?
Even then it's still granite based so fairly abrasive. At least compared to limestone based grounds.
I'm strongly leaning towards the new Tachy Chan 2.5 radial for the front paired with a Romy rear. I'm deciding between diagonal and radial for the rear for my trail bike.
Might give the High roller 3 up front with the new Dissector on the rear a go.
Not sure where I'll end up towards the end of the summer.
Current setup is a TC in the summer or a Magic Mary in Fall/ winter on the front with a Nobby Nic on the rear.
I had been running a TC front and either NN or Hans dampf rear. The radial tacky chan fixes most of my complaints about the original and the Romy corners better than the other two tires while still rolling fairly fast (I'm using the race pro).
I really liked the HR3, but man it wore out quickly.
I’m currently running a Magic Mary Radial with a Romy Diagonal in the rear, and I like how much zippier it feels vs the radial Albert with the same compound. I have a TC radial to potentially replace the Mary up front coming in a week or so, so I can let you know if you haven’t decided by then.
I have the same hesitation, except that those tires will be for a Downcountry bike, for rocky and rooty trail, mostly dry or lightly damp. Still hesitating between Tacky Chan/Romy, Kryptotal/Magnotal, Dissector/Rekon or Dissector/Forekaster
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