That's a choice. Minimum wage is $15-17 an hour on the West Coast.
Anyone who downvoted this, has only signed the back of a paycheck, and has never had to sign the front (lower right side).
Minimum wage in SeaTac is USD 19.71.
And then try to get employees, who could just sit at home and make more money from American Disability.
I'm sure I read somewhere that Rapha has not made an operating profit since their acquisition.
The Rapha in Bentonville thing made no sense. I can't think of a less "Rapha" place than Arkansas (billionaires and hangers-on excepted). As with a lot of things in Bentonville, once the folks holding the money lose interest, the money dries up, and the business withers on the vine of the actual free market without benefactors to sustain it.
I think we're in an ugly couple years right now due to Covid forecasting, but if I'm Specialized, Trek, or Giant, I'm really bullish about the...
I think we're in an ugly couple years right now due to Covid forecasting, but if I'm Specialized, Trek, or Giant, I'm really bullish about the next decade or three. The world is moving into cities, oftentimes mega cities, and bikes are a powerful way to get around cities, especially now that e-bikes are an option. Cars in cities are an urban planning disaster and cities around the world are scrambling to integrate better bike infrastructure as fast as they can. In addition to that, outdoor recreation continues to be a growing segment across all ages, genders, and demographics and traditional stick and ball sports continue to drop in participation (in western countries at least, I don't know statistics for traditional ball sports in the global south). I think we're going to see year-to-year increases in bike participation for a long, long time. Increases in participation = sales.
We all know the majority of money is made on basic low end models and commuter bikes going forward.
As an industry insider, how much do you think the brands value the cool marketing material and brand value from mountain biking, to sell their commuters and bulk bikes?
I think for the big brands that's a very key part, and unfortunately it means they take the profit from boring bikes and squeeze the enthusiast MTB market and remove innovating small brands by using that capital.
We all know the majority of money is made on basic low end models and commuter bikes going forward.
As an industry insider, how much do...
We all know the majority of money is made on basic low end models and commuter bikes going forward.
As an industry insider, how much do you think the brands value the cool marketing material and brand value from mountain biking, to sell their commuters and bulk bikes?
I think for the big brands that's a very key part, and unfortunately it means they take the profit from boring bikes and squeeze the enthusiast MTB market and remove innovating small brands by using that capital.
Great question. I'll answer your bike industry question with a car industry analogy: Toyota sells a lot more Corollas and Rav4s than Tacomas and Tundras, but it advertises the trucks a lot more than cars or crossovers. It's not impossible to advertise a Corolla but it's a hell of a lot easier to advertise the Toyota brand and get the "T" in people's eyeballs with aspirational images like a big pickup truck driving over piles of gravel and rebar with a bed full of BBQ grills draped in the American flag. I think the same applies to bikes. I can't think of a time I've ever seen an advertisement from Specialized, Trek, or Giant for their non-electric commuter bikes.
I think we're in an ugly couple years right now due to Covid forecasting, but if I'm Specialized, Trek, or Giant, I'm really bullish about the...
I think we're in an ugly couple years right now due to Covid forecasting, but if I'm Specialized, Trek, or Giant, I'm really bullish about the next decade or three. The world is moving into cities, oftentimes mega cities, and bikes are a powerful way to get around cities, especially now that e-bikes are an option. Cars in cities are an urban planning disaster and cities around the world are scrambling to integrate better bike infrastructure as fast as they can. In addition to that, outdoor recreation continues to be a growing segment across all ages, genders, and demographics and traditional stick and ball sports continue to drop in participation (in western countries at least, I don't know statistics for traditional ball sports in the global south). I think we're going to see year-to-year increases in bike participation for a long, long time. Increases in participation = sales.
We all know the majority of money is made on basic low end models and commuter bikes going forward.
As an industry insider, how much do...
We all know the majority of money is made on basic low end models and commuter bikes going forward.
As an industry insider, how much do you think the brands value the cool marketing material and brand value from mountain biking, to sell their commuters and bulk bikes?
I think for the big brands that's a very key part, and unfortunately it means they take the profit from boring bikes and squeeze the enthusiast MTB market and remove innovating small brands by using that capital.
Not to be a ninny, but I'd love to see what the product mix really looks like (at Specialized especially) against margins and profitability. While I wouldn't bet against the idea that the lowest end of the mix is the biggest moneymaker, I also would want "basic low end" to be defined before I took that bet. Hell, in some ways, the bikes I ride may be considered "basic" or "low(er) end" (GX, GRIP 1, alloy etc)
That said, taking your hypothesis at face value, I am not sure it matters much. The market is *always* going to be competitive, especially something sexy and cool like bicycles. Sure, a smaller company won't have the same economies of scale that a larger company will have. These advantages include more access to capital at significantly lower rates, volume discounts from vendors, better vendor terms, more access to talent, better access to certain types of manufacturing etc etc etc. This is always the case across most industries, no matter how a company prices their products against market demands.
Semi related, haven't a few car companies sold their flagship supercars at a loss just because they can? IE, I know Bugatti did this with the Veyron, I think the NSX ended up a massive loss etc.
We all know the majority of money is made on basic low end models and commuter bikes going forward.
As an industry insider, how much do...
We all know the majority of money is made on basic low end models and commuter bikes going forward.
As an industry insider, how much do you think the brands value the cool marketing material and brand value from mountain biking, to sell their commuters and bulk bikes?
I think for the big brands that's a very key part, and unfortunately it means they take the profit from boring bikes and squeeze the enthusiast MTB market and remove innovating small brands by using that capital.
Great question. I'll answer your bike industry question with a car industry analogy: Toyota sells a lot more Corollas and Rav4s than Tacomas and Tundras, but...
Great question. I'll answer your bike industry question with a car industry analogy: Toyota sells a lot more Corollas and Rav4s than Tacomas and Tundras, but it advertises the trucks a lot more than cars or crossovers. It's not impossible to advertise a Corolla but it's a hell of a lot easier to advertise the Toyota brand and get the "T" in people's eyeballs with aspirational images like a big pickup truck driving over piles of gravel and rebar with a bed full of BBQ grills draped in the American flag. I think the same applies to bikes. I can't think of a time I've ever seen an advertisement from Specialized, Trek, or Giant for their non-electric commuter bikes.
I think we're in an ugly couple years right now due to Covid forecasting, but if I'm Specialized, Trek, or Giant, I'm really bullish about the...
I think we're in an ugly couple years right now due to Covid forecasting, but if I'm Specialized, Trek, or Giant, I'm really bullish about the next decade or three. The world is moving into cities, oftentimes mega cities, and bikes are a powerful way to get around cities, especially now that e-bikes are an option. Cars in cities are an urban planning disaster and cities around the world are scrambling to integrate better bike infrastructure as fast as they can. In addition to that, outdoor recreation continues to be a growing segment across all ages, genders, and demographics and traditional stick and ball sports continue to drop in participation (in western countries at least, I don't know statistics for traditional ball sports in the global south). I think we're going to see year-to-year increases in bike participation for a long, long time. Increases in participation = sales.
We all know the majority of money is made on basic low end models and commuter bikes going forward.
As an industry insider, how much do...
We all know the majority of money is made on basic low end models and commuter bikes going forward.
As an industry insider, how much do you think the brands value the cool marketing material and brand value from mountain biking, to sell their commuters and bulk bikes?
I think for the big brands that's a very key part, and unfortunately it means they take the profit from boring bikes and squeeze the enthusiast MTB market and remove innovating small brands by using that capital.
Not to be a ninny, but I'd love to see what the product mix really looks like (at Specialized especially) against margins and profitability. While I...
Not to be a ninny, but I'd love to see what the product mix really looks like (at Specialized especially) against margins and profitability. While I wouldn't bet against the idea that the lowest end of the mix is the biggest moneymaker, I also would want "basic low end" to be defined before I took that bet. Hell, in some ways, the bikes I ride may be considered "basic" or "low(er) end" (GX, GRIP 1, alloy etc)
That said, taking your hypothesis at face value, I am not sure it matters much. The market is *always* going to be competitive, especially something sexy and cool like bicycles. Sure, a smaller company won't have the same economies of scale that a larger company will have. These advantages include more access to capital at significantly lower rates, volume discounts from vendors, better vendor terms, more access to talent, better access to certain types of manufacturing etc etc etc. This is always the case across most industries, no matter how a company prices their products against market demands.
Semi related, haven't a few car companies sold their flagship supercars at a loss just because they can? IE, I know Bugatti did this with the Veyron, I think the NSX ended up a massive loss etc.
Nothing that "we" ride is basic in their portfolio, think $400 FX with rim brakes. It's an upgrade to discs, and they might still be cable. They sell the hell out of those things.
I think we're in an ugly couple years right now due to Covid forecasting, but if I'm Specialized, Trek, or Giant, I'm really bullish about the...
I think we're in an ugly couple years right now due to Covid forecasting, but if I'm Specialized, Trek, or Giant, I'm really bullish about the next decade or three. The world is moving into cities, oftentimes mega cities, and bikes are a powerful way to get around cities, especially now that e-bikes are an option. Cars in cities are an urban planning disaster and cities around the world are scrambling to integrate better bike infrastructure as fast as they can. In addition to that, outdoor recreation continues to be a growing segment across all ages, genders, and demographics and traditional stick and ball sports continue to drop in participation (in western countries at least, I don't know statistics for traditional ball sports in the global south). I think we're going to see year-to-year increases in bike participation for a long, long time. Increases in participation = sales.
We all know the majority of money is made on basic low end models and commuter bikes going forward.
As an industry insider, how much do...
We all know the majority of money is made on basic low end models and commuter bikes going forward.
As an industry insider, how much do you think the brands value the cool marketing material and brand value from mountain biking, to sell their commuters and bulk bikes?
I think for the big brands that's a very key part, and unfortunately it means they take the profit from boring bikes and squeeze the enthusiast MTB market and remove innovating small brands by using that capital.
Not to be a ninny, but I'd love to see what the product mix really looks like (at Specialized especially) against margins and profitability. While I...
Not to be a ninny, but I'd love to see what the product mix really looks like (at Specialized especially) against margins and profitability. While I wouldn't bet against the idea that the lowest end of the mix is the biggest moneymaker, I also would want "basic low end" to be defined before I took that bet. Hell, in some ways, the bikes I ride may be considered "basic" or "low(er) end" (GX, GRIP 1, alloy etc)
That said, taking your hypothesis at face value, I am not sure it matters much. The market is *always* going to be competitive, especially something sexy and cool like bicycles. Sure, a smaller company won't have the same economies of scale that a larger company will have. These advantages include more access to capital at significantly lower rates, volume discounts from vendors, better vendor terms, more access to talent, better access to certain types of manufacturing etc etc etc. This is always the case across most industries, no matter how a company prices their products against market demands.
Semi related, haven't a few car companies sold their flagship supercars at a loss just because they can? IE, I know Bugatti did this with the Veyron, I think the NSX ended up a massive loss etc.
I haven't worked bike company side, but I've seen quite a few shop accounts and a few friends work in shops and the majority of their money is made on low end bikes, parts and servicing.
High end let's say $5k+ AUD bike sales are just so rare relative to selling 10 kids bikes and helmets etc etc.
The thing I'll say is Trek Giant etc have their work cut out for them in the commuter space.
I'm in Paris currently and the brand Dance is very popular here, very sleek belt drive e-bikes that are all leased, come with theft insurance included etc. They're selling bikes like cars, it's very interesting.
A friend just took a job in London and through a partnered company can salary sacrifice to get a Cowboy ebike as a salary package (it even has upside down forks!). The old business model of selling expensive ebikes to consumers is gone, it's the Fintech revolution of rental payments with servicing and extras included, and to be honest, why would I go with Specialized when everything is bundled for free for a monthly payment?
When I was at Sea Otter last week, I asked a few brands, "What's the state of the bike industry post-COVID?" Most people's responses were broad and not super in-depth, but overall, most people are optimistic looking forward. And the brands that are feeling it the most didn't plan appropriately for the inevitable decline in demand after the COVID boom. Here is the audio from the conversations:
I haven't worked bike company side, but I've seen quite a few shop accounts and a few friends work in shops and the majority of their...
I haven't worked bike company side, but I've seen quite a few shop accounts and a few friends work in shops and the majority of their money is made on low end bikes, parts and servicing.
High end let's say $5k+ AUD bike sales are just so rare relative to selling 10 kids bikes and helmets etc etc.
The thing I'll say is Trek Giant etc have their work cut out for them in the commuter space.
I'm in Paris currently and the brand Dance is very popular here, very sleek belt drive e-bikes that are all leased, come with theft insurance included etc. They're selling bikes like cars, it's very interesting.
A friend just took a job in London and through a partnered company can salary sacrifice to get a Cowboy ebike as a salary package (it even has upside down forks!). The old business model of selling expensive ebikes to consumers is gone, it's the Fintech revolution of rental payments with servicing and extras included, and to be honest, why would I go with Specialized when everything is bundled for free for a monthly payment?
Yeah, no doubt that the old model of selling a high-end toy at full price directly to an enthusiastic recreational end-user is not going to translate the same way to a transportation e-bike user. Agreed that the Big Four have a long way to go in tracking down and wooing that customer, but that customer is out there in droves and I'm confident when the Big Four see enough of their sales walking out the door towards other, more creative marketing brands, they'll catch on. My main point is that the bike sector is still very much alive and well in the long term, even if the short term outlook for firms is rough. I think we agree. Like you said, those ebikes are selling like hotcakes in Paris, a city that just put A LOT of political capital into bike lanes.
When I was at Sea Otter last week, I asked a few brands, "What's the state of the bike industry post-COVID?" Most people's responses were broad...
When I was at Sea Otter last week, I asked a few brands, "What's the state of the bike industry post-COVID?" Most people's responses were broad and not super in-depth, but overall, most people are optimistic looking forward. And the brands that are feeling it the most didn't plan appropriately for the inevitable decline in demand after the COVID boom. Here is the audio from the conversations:
I loved the questions, but those were the expected public facing answers. PON Bike (Santa Cruz) and Trek are certainly feeling the pain. I have no idea about Transition, though they've made a deliberate choice to grow slower than they could have. Hopefully that means their balance sheet is strong enough to get through this in one piece.
Are these brands optimistic looking forward 2 years? Yeah, probably. But I'd bet my entire 2024 riding season* that they're mostly freaked out, wondering how they're going to survive for the next 18 months until inventory is cleared out and normalcy returns. Brands who run lean, with low debt, and who didn't massively over-order, will probably be OK.
I haven't worked bike company side, but I've seen quite a few shop accounts and a few friends work in shops and the majority of their...
I haven't worked bike company side, but I've seen quite a few shop accounts and a few friends work in shops and the majority of their money is made on low end bikes, parts and servicing.
High end let's say $5k+ AUD bike sales are just so rare relative to selling 10 kids bikes and helmets etc etc.
The thing I'll say is Trek Giant etc have their work cut out for them in the commuter space.
I'm in Paris currently and the brand Dance is very popular here, very sleek belt drive e-bikes that are all leased, come with theft insurance included etc. They're selling bikes like cars, it's very interesting.
A friend just took a job in London and through a partnered company can salary sacrifice to get a Cowboy ebike as a salary package (it even has upside down forks!). The old business model of selling expensive ebikes to consumers is gone, it's the Fintech revolution of rental payments with servicing and extras included, and to be honest, why would I go with Specialized when everything is bundled for free for a monthly payment?
BAAS [Bicycles As A Service] could be a real thing alongside on-demand hire.
I haven't worked bike company side, but I've seen quite a few shop accounts and a few friends work in shops and the majority of their...
I haven't worked bike company side, but I've seen quite a few shop accounts and a few friends work in shops and the majority of their money is made on low end bikes, parts and servicing.
High end let's say $5k+ AUD bike sales are just so rare relative to selling 10 kids bikes and helmets etc etc.
The thing I'll say is Trek Giant etc have their work cut out for them in the commuter space.
I'm in Paris currently and the brand Dance is very popular here, very sleek belt drive e-bikes that are all leased, come with theft insurance included etc. They're selling bikes like cars, it's very interesting.
A friend just took a job in London and through a partnered company can salary sacrifice to get a Cowboy ebike as a salary package (it even has upside down forks!). The old business model of selling expensive ebikes to consumers is gone, it's the Fintech revolution of rental payments with servicing and extras included, and to be honest, why would I go with Specialized when everything is bundled for free for a monthly payment?
BAAS [Bicycles As A Service] could be a real thing alongside on-demand hire.
I think for commuters it absolutely will be.
There is a long running trend in economics where products shift from sole purchase upfront to utility payments, it occurs with almost everything. You go as far back as lighting, use to buy candles or wood, now rent electricity usage. Compute for companies, you use to buy your own server, now you hire via AWS or Oracle or someone. Hell even high end clothes the rental market is rapidly growing. I think for something as ubiquitous as urban transport it's inevitable that utility payments will come to dominate.
@Jason_Schroeder the podcast was great, thanks for asking the questions.
I don't think it'll be as bad for most companies as what we expect, I think a lot banked a huge profit from the boom, or maybe a small loss, but they'll just go forward. MTB isn't shrinking they'll survive.
The podcast was great, interesting to here how those companies see the future. There definitely seemed to be three types of answers: 1) no real answer, 2) a general answer about the 'industry', and 3) then a real answer about the company they work for. I think you can take some insight into the how they're doing depending on which category their answer falls in to.
The podcast was great, interesting to here how those companies see the future. There definitely seemed to be three types of answers: 1) no real answer...
The podcast was great, interesting to here how those companies see the future. There definitely seemed to be three types of answers: 1) no real answer, 2) a general answer about the 'industry', and 3) then a real answer about the company they work for. I think you can take some insight into the how they're doing depending on which category their answer falls in to.
The corporate entities towing the 'wall of positivity' company line whilst offloading their massive overstock at half price (insert this is fine meme).
Interesting to hear so many say the key to growth is to stop gatekeeping (because it's our fault) and welcome new riders.......whilst a midrange bike is now $6k and riding kit is $200 shorts and $100 jerseys.
The pandemic accelerated the crash but the downturn has been coming for a long time and is largley self inflicted by 'the industry' (nefarious amorphous conglomerate that it is /s )
Pretty bad for the people at Kona.. That post seems to go hand in hand with what we just saw ar Otter..
In regards to a...
Pretty bad for the people at Kona.. That post seems to go hand in hand with what we just saw ar Otter..
In regards to a couple of other brands that were mentioned..
Niner.. Maybe in the same boat as Kona? Bought by a big company and we really haven't seen much since.. Do they retain the core Ninerds?
Alchemy.. Cool bikes but they never seemed to really take off.. Maybe the drop bar business is keeping them alive?
Revel.. Probably the one that has been the best of those 3 that were mentioned. They have released new bikes, still marketing them.. They seem like they haven't gone crazy expecting large sales numbers..
Just my opinion...
You see a lot of Revels here in Colorado. Just so folks know
There's been some discussion about whether we have an oversaturation of companies making frames/bikes, but surely the pool of brands attempting to sell MTB apparel is even larger. The number of companies selling $75 "tech tees" is ridiculous. I'm sure the up-front investment required to sell a line of clothing is much smaller, and the financial position less precarious as a result. Still seems like a very, very crowded market.
The Rapha in Bentonville thing made no sense. I can't think of a less "Rapha" place than Arkansas (billionaires and hangers-on excepted). As with a lot...
The Rapha in Bentonville thing made no sense. I can't think of a less "Rapha" place than Arkansas (billionaires and hangers-on excepted). As with a lot of things in Bentonville, once the folks holding the money lose interest, the money dries up, and the business withers on the vine of the actual free market without benefactors to sustain it.
afaik the whole mtb division was in bentonville, at least thats where they were hiring for when i quit right before the mtb launch
The Rapha in Bentonville thing made no sense. I can't think of a less "Rapha" place than Arkansas (billionaires and hangers-on excepted). As with a lot...
The Rapha in Bentonville thing made no sense. I can't think of a less "Rapha" place than Arkansas (billionaires and hangers-on excepted). As with a lot of things in Bentonville, once the folks holding the money lose interest, the money dries up, and the business withers on the vine of the actual free market without benefactors to sustain it.
afaik the whole mtb division was in bentonville, at least thats where they were hiring for when i quit right before the mtb launch
All the bike industry stuff in Bentonville has always felt precarious to me. It seems like it all hinges on the Waltons staying interested in bikes. If they loose interest, or when they get older, does the bottom just fall out from under it? I’ve never visited there, so maybe I just have a skewed outsider’s view?
The Rapha in Bentonville thing made no sense. I can't think of a less "Rapha" place than Arkansas (billionaires and hangers-on excepted). As with a lot...
The Rapha in Bentonville thing made no sense. I can't think of a less "Rapha" place than Arkansas (billionaires and hangers-on excepted). As with a lot of things in Bentonville, once the folks holding the money lose interest, the money dries up, and the business withers on the vine of the actual free market without benefactors to sustain it.
All the bike industry stuff in Bentonville has always felt precarious to me. It seems like it all hinges on the Waltons staying interested in bikes...
All the bike industry stuff in Bentonville has always felt precarious to me. It seems like it all hinges on the Waltons staying interested in bikes. If they loose interest, or when they get older, does the bottom just fall out from under it? I’ve never visited there, so maybe I just have a skewed outsider’s view?
The tourism industry in Bentonville has a large interest in keeping the trails coming. The people who live there (and many have moved there because of the outdoor scene) are invested in continuing keeping the trails coming. I don’t think at this point the Walton’s are a key to the industry there.
ENVE purchased by PV3 Investments - press release below
ENVE Composites Acquired by Utah-Based PV3 Investments
April 30th, 2024 Ogden, Utah - Amer Sports, parent company to ENVE Composites, has announced that ENVE has been acquired by PV3, a Utah-based private investment firm whose owners are avid cyclists and have been familiar with the brand for many years.
Amer Sports’ Chief Operating Officer Michael Hauge Sørensen said, “ENVE has gone through major changes in the past years. The brand has positive momentum, and we see that it has good potential. However, after a thorough strategic evaluation, we have concluded that the next phase of development should happen under new ownership. We believe PV3 is the most suitable owner for ENVE to realize and drive its next growth phase.”
ENVE Composites was founded in 2007 and is one of a small number of U.S. cycling brands to have American manufacturing. The company’s dedication to performance products and in-house manufacturing has allowed it to be an innovation leader in wheels, components, and bicycles while partnering with many of the best athletes in the world.
In 2016, ENVE moved into its Ogden, Utah-based headquarters. The 80,000-square-foot building houses engineering, R&D, manufacturing, sales, marketing, customer service, and finance functions that provide employment opportunities to the local community. PV3 is dedicated to maintaining ENVE’s heritage as a Utah-based manufacturer and leader in composites technology.
“We have confidence in the direction ENVE’s management team are taking the company and we want to continue building the brand’s legacy as a performance leader and U.S. manufacturer while providing the necessary support for continued growth,” said Mark Hancock, Principal of PV3.
ENVE’s General Manager Mike Stimola stated, “This is an opportunity to take ENVE to the next level through local Utah ownership. While the current bicycle market is challenging, ENVE is growing based onour product innovation and professional team partnerships.”
Mike Stimola was brought on by Amer Sports in January 2023 and will continue in his current role. With the acquisition complete, ENVE’s operations will continue as normal.
Closing is expected to take place in the next few weeks and the parties have agreed not to disclose the transaction details.
Located in Ogden, Utah, ENVE Composites is a manufacturer of handmade carbon fiber bicycle frames, rims, and components. Partnering with the world’s best athletes, ENVE combines the best composite technologies with real-world athlete feedback to provide our customers with the ultimate in performance,
durability, and quality. ENVE designs and manufactures 100% of their rims and the Custom Road Bike in their Ogden, Utah, USA facility.
About Amer Sports
Amer Sports is a global group of iconic sports and outdoor brands, including Arc’teryx, Salomon, Wilson, Peak Performance, and Atomic. Our brands are known for their detailed craftsmanship, unwavering authenticity, and premium market positioning. As creators of exceptional apparel, footwear, and equipment, we pride ourselves on cutting-edge innovation, performance, and designs that allow elite athletes and everyday consumers to perform their best.
With over 11,400 employees globally, Amer Sports’ purpose is to elevate the world through sport. Our vision is to be the global leader in premium sports and outdoor brands. With corporate offices in Helsinki, Munich, Kraków, New York, and Shanghai, we have operations in 40+ countries and our products are sold in 100+ countries. Amer Sports, Inc. shares are listed on the New York Stock Exchange. For more information, visit www.amersports.com.
About PV3
PV3 is the family holding company of Mark Hancock, an experienced and successful entrepreneur and cycling enthusiast.
"'We have confidence in the direction ENVE’s management team are taking the company and we want to continue building the brand’s legacy as a performance leader and U.S. manufacturer while providing the necessary support for continued growth,' said Mark Hancock, Principal of PV3."
The tourism industry in Bentonville has a large interest in keeping the trails coming. The people who live there (and many have moved there because of...
The tourism industry in Bentonville has a large interest in keeping the trails coming. The people who live there (and many have moved there because of the outdoor scene) are invested in continuing keeping the trails coming. I don’t think at this point the Walton’s are a key to the industry there.
I'm gonna disagree. For better or worse, Walmart-related money is responsible for Bentonville MTB being a thing. However, I don't think there's a huge risk of that investment drying up or their interest in cycling suddenly stopping. Their headquarters are in Bentonville and they're trying to making as desirable as possible for highly-skilled tech workers (and others) to move there so they can compete with Amazon. That's why they invest in outdoor recreation, art, culture, and education.
Not saying the riding in NWA isn't good. But it wouldn't have the profile it has (or trails, events, etc.) without the direct and indirect interests of the largest company in the world (by revenue).
ENVE purchased by PV3 Investments - press release below
ENVE Composites Acquired by Utah-Based PV3 Investments
April 30th, 2024 Ogden, Utah - Amer Sports, parent company to ENVE Composites, has announced that ENVE has been acquired by PV3, a Utah-based private investment firm whose owners are avid cyclists and have been familiar with the brand for many years.
Amer Sports’ Chief Operating Officer Michael Hauge Sørensen said, “ENVE has gone through major changes in the past years. The brand has positive momentum, and we see that it has good potential. However, after a thorough strategic evaluation, we have concluded that the next phase of development should happen under new ownership. We believe PV3 is the most suitable owner for ENVE to realize and drive its next growth phase.”
ENVE Composites was founded in 2007 and is one of a small number of U.S. cycling brands to have American manufacturing. The company’s dedication to performance products and in-house manufacturing has allowed it to be an innovation leader in wheels, components, and bicycles while partnering with many of the best athletes in the world.
In 2016, ENVE moved into its Ogden, Utah-based headquarters. The 80,000-square-foot building houses engineering, R&D, manufacturing, sales, marketing, customer service, and finance functions that provide employment opportunities to the local community. PV3 is dedicated to maintaining ENVE’s heritage as a Utah-based manufacturer and leader in composites technology.
“We have confidence in the direction ENVE’s management team are taking the company and we want to continue building the brand’s legacy as a performance leader and U.S. manufacturer while providing the necessary support for continued growth,” said Mark Hancock, Principal of PV3.
ENVE’s General Manager Mike Stimola stated, “This is an opportunity to take ENVE to the next level through local Utah ownership. While the current bicycle market is challenging, ENVE is growing based onour product innovation and professional team partnerships.”
Mike Stimola was brought on by Amer Sports in January 2023 and will continue in his current role. With the acquisition complete, ENVE’s operations will continue as normal.
Closing is expected to take place in the next few weeks and the parties have agreed not to disclose the transaction details.
Located in Ogden, Utah, ENVE Composites is a manufacturer of handmade carbon fiber bicycle frames, rims, and components. Partnering with the world’s best athletes, ENVE combines the best composite technologies with real-world athlete feedback to provide our customers with the ultimate in performance,
durability, and quality. ENVE designs and manufactures 100% of their rims and the Custom Road Bike in their Ogden, Utah, USA facility.
About Amer Sports
Amer Sports is a global group of iconic sports and outdoor brands, including Arc’teryx, Salomon, Wilson, Peak Performance, and Atomic. Our brands are known for their detailed craftsmanship, unwavering authenticity, and premium market positioning. As creators of exceptional apparel, footwear, and equipment, we pride ourselves on cutting-edge innovation, performance, and designs that allow elite athletes and everyday consumers to perform their best.
With over 11,400 employees globally, Amer Sports’ purpose is to elevate the world through sport. Our vision is to be the global leader in premium sports and outdoor brands. With corporate offices in Helsinki, Munich, Kraków, New York, and Shanghai, we have operations in 40+ countries and our products are sold in 100+ countries. Amer Sports, Inc. shares are listed on the New York Stock Exchange. For more information, visit www.amersports.com.
About PV3
PV3 is the family holding company of Mark Hancock, an experienced and successful entrepreneur and cycling enthusiast.
"'We have confidence in the direction ENVE’s management team are taking the company and we want to continue building the brand’s legacy as a performance leader...
"'We have confidence in the direction ENVE’s management team are taking the company and we want to continue building the brand’s legacy as a performance leader and U.S. manufacturer while providing the necessary support for continued growth,' said Mark Hancock, Principal of PV3."
Stop me if you've heard this one before...
+6 Months.
ENVE composites announce management restructure and appoint ex CFO of Kickin'! Sportswear to lead the company.
+12 Months
ENVE to shut Ogden offices and production as company focus on offshore manufacturing with the loss off 150 jobs.
They looked at the company.......saw how they can cut production overheads whilst maintaining the premium price. Will dilute the brand whilst wringing it for as much as they can then dump whats left in 3-5 years.
ENVE purchased by PV3 Investments - press release below
ENVE Composites Acquired by Utah-Based PV3 Investments
April 30th, 2024 Ogden, Utah - Amer Sports, parent company to ENVE Composites, has announced that ENVE has been acquired by PV3, a Utah-based private investment firm whose owners are avid cyclists and have been familiar with the brand for many years.
Amer Sports’ Chief Operating Officer Michael Hauge Sørensen said, “ENVE has gone through major changes in the past years. The brand has positive momentum, and we see that it has good potential. However, after a thorough strategic evaluation, we have concluded that the next phase of development should happen under new ownership. We believe PV3 is the most suitable owner for ENVE to realize and drive its next growth phase.”
ENVE Composites was founded in 2007 and is one of a small number of U.S. cycling brands to have American manufacturing. The company’s dedication to performance products and in-house manufacturing has allowed it to be an innovation leader in wheels, components, and bicycles while partnering with many of the best athletes in the world.
In 2016, ENVE moved into its Ogden, Utah-based headquarters. The 80,000-square-foot building houses engineering, R&D, manufacturing, sales, marketing, customer service, and finance functions that provide employment opportunities to the local community. PV3 is dedicated to maintaining ENVE’s heritage as a Utah-based manufacturer and leader in composites technology.
“We have confidence in the direction ENVE’s management team are taking the company and we want to continue building the brand’s legacy as a performance leader and U.S. manufacturer while providing the necessary support for continued growth,” said Mark Hancock, Principal of PV3.
ENVE’s General Manager Mike Stimola stated, “This is an opportunity to take ENVE to the next level through local Utah ownership. While the current bicycle market is challenging, ENVE is growing based onour product innovation and professional team partnerships.”
Mike Stimola was brought on by Amer Sports in January 2023 and will continue in his current role. With the acquisition complete, ENVE’s operations will continue as normal.
Closing is expected to take place in the next few weeks and the parties have agreed not to disclose the transaction details.
Located in Ogden, Utah, ENVE Composites is a manufacturer of handmade carbon fiber bicycle frames, rims, and components. Partnering with the world’s best athletes, ENVE combines the best composite technologies with real-world athlete feedback to provide our customers with the ultimate in performance,
durability, and quality. ENVE designs and manufactures 100% of their rims and the Custom Road Bike in their Ogden, Utah, USA facility.
About Amer Sports
Amer Sports is a global group of iconic sports and outdoor brands, including Arc’teryx, Salomon, Wilson, Peak Performance, and Atomic. Our brands are known for their detailed craftsmanship, unwavering authenticity, and premium market positioning. As creators of exceptional apparel, footwear, and equipment, we pride ourselves on cutting-edge innovation, performance, and designs that allow elite athletes and everyday consumers to perform their best.
With over 11,400 employees globally, Amer Sports’ purpose is to elevate the world through sport. Our vision is to be the global leader in premium sports and outdoor brands. With corporate offices in Helsinki, Munich, Kraków, New York, and Shanghai, we have operations in 40+ countries and our products are sold in 100+ countries. Amer Sports, Inc. shares are listed on the New York Stock Exchange. For more information, visit www.amersports.com.
About PV3
PV3 is the family holding company of Mark Hancock, an experienced and successful entrepreneur and cycling enthusiast.
Maybe they'll have a budget provision this time to buy off Paul Aston.
Surerly ENVE do 90% of their sales in the road space anyway? MTB is small fry for them.
Discussing brand failures, it's interesting to see Haro and Mongoose re-enter the market with affordable aluminium bikes (presuming they make it to public release).
Anyone who downvoted this, has only signed the back of a paycheck, and has never had to sign the front (lower right side).
Minimum wage in...
Anyone who downvoted this, has only signed the back of a paycheck, and has never had to sign the front (lower right side).
Minimum wage in SeaTac is USD 19.71.
And then try to get employees, who could just sit at home and make more money from American Disability.
Sounds like you're a shitty boss. Good employees aren't hard to find if you pay them reasonable wages and treat them respectfully. If minimum wage is your starting point you're already all kinds of fucked from the jump.
ENVE purchased by PV3 Investments - press release below
ENVE Composites Acquired by Utah-Based PV3 Investments
April 30th, 2024 Ogden, Utah - Amer Sports, parent company to ENVE Composites, has announced that ENVE has been acquired by PV3, a Utah-based private investment firm whose owners are avid cyclists and have been familiar with the brand for many years.
Amer Sports’ Chief Operating Officer Michael Hauge Sørensen said, “ENVE has gone through major changes in the past years. The brand has positive momentum, and we see that it has good potential. However, after a thorough strategic evaluation, we have concluded that the next phase of development should happen under new ownership. We believe PV3 is the most suitable owner for ENVE to realize and drive its next growth phase.”
ENVE Composites was founded in 2007 and is one of a small number of U.S. cycling brands to have American manufacturing. The company’s dedication to performance products and in-house manufacturing has allowed it to be an innovation leader in wheels, components, and bicycles while partnering with many of the best athletes in the world.
In 2016, ENVE moved into its Ogden, Utah-based headquarters. The 80,000-square-foot building houses engineering, R&D, manufacturing, sales, marketing, customer service, and finance functions that provide employment opportunities to the local community. PV3 is dedicated to maintaining ENVE’s heritage as a Utah-based manufacturer and leader in composites technology.
“We have confidence in the direction ENVE’s management team are taking the company and we want to continue building the brand’s legacy as a performance leader and U.S. manufacturer while providing the necessary support for continued growth,” said Mark Hancock, Principal of PV3.
ENVE’s General Manager Mike Stimola stated, “This is an opportunity to take ENVE to the next level through local Utah ownership. While the current bicycle market is challenging, ENVE is growing based onour product innovation and professional team partnerships.”
Mike Stimola was brought on by Amer Sports in January 2023 and will continue in his current role. With the acquisition complete, ENVE’s operations will continue as normal.
Closing is expected to take place in the next few weeks and the parties have agreed not to disclose the transaction details.
Located in Ogden, Utah, ENVE Composites is a manufacturer of handmade carbon fiber bicycle frames, rims, and components. Partnering with the world’s best athletes, ENVE combines the best composite technologies with real-world athlete feedback to provide our customers with the ultimate in performance,
durability, and quality. ENVE designs and manufactures 100% of their rims and the Custom Road Bike in their Ogden, Utah, USA facility.
About Amer Sports
Amer Sports is a global group of iconic sports and outdoor brands, including Arc’teryx, Salomon, Wilson, Peak Performance, and Atomic. Our brands are known for their detailed craftsmanship, unwavering authenticity, and premium market positioning. As creators of exceptional apparel, footwear, and equipment, we pride ourselves on cutting-edge innovation, performance, and designs that allow elite athletes and everyday consumers to perform their best.
With over 11,400 employees globally, Amer Sports’ purpose is to elevate the world through sport. Our vision is to be the global leader in premium sports and outdoor brands. With corporate offices in Helsinki, Munich, Kraków, New York, and Shanghai, we have operations in 40+ countries and our products are sold in 100+ countries. Amer Sports, Inc. shares are listed on the New York Stock Exchange. For more information, visit www.amersports.com.
About PV3
PV3 is the family holding company of Mark Hancock, an experienced and successful entrepreneur and cycling enthusiast.
I did and have no regrets about the purchase, aside from finding the longer reach more agreeable than on my Trance X.
Anyone who downvoted this, has only signed the back of a paycheck, and has never had to sign the front (lower right side).
Minimum wage in SeaTac is USD 19.71.
And then try to get employees, who could just sit at home and make more money from American Disability.
The Rapha in Bentonville thing made no sense. I can't think of a less "Rapha" place than Arkansas (billionaires and hangers-on excepted). As with a lot of things in Bentonville, once the folks holding the money lose interest, the money dries up, and the business withers on the vine of the actual free market without benefactors to sustain it.
We all know the majority of money is made on basic low end models and commuter bikes going forward.
As an industry insider, how much do you think the brands value the cool marketing material and brand value from mountain biking, to sell their commuters and bulk bikes?
I think for the big brands that's a very key part, and unfortunately it means they take the profit from boring bikes and squeeze the enthusiast MTB market and remove innovating small brands by using that capital.
Great question. I'll answer your bike industry question with a car industry analogy: Toyota sells a lot more Corollas and Rav4s than Tacomas and Tundras, but it advertises the trucks a lot more than cars or crossovers. It's not impossible to advertise a Corolla but it's a hell of a lot easier to advertise the Toyota brand and get the "T" in people's eyeballs with aspirational images like a big pickup truck driving over piles of gravel and rebar with a bed full of BBQ grills draped in the American flag. I think the same applies to bikes. I can't think of a time I've ever seen an advertisement from Specialized, Trek, or Giant for their non-electric commuter bikes.
Not to be a ninny, but I'd love to see what the product mix really looks like (at Specialized especially) against margins and profitability. While I wouldn't bet against the idea that the lowest end of the mix is the biggest moneymaker, I also would want "basic low end" to be defined before I took that bet. Hell, in some ways, the bikes I ride may be considered "basic" or "low(er) end" (GX, GRIP 1, alloy etc)
That said, taking your hypothesis at face value, I am not sure it matters much. The market is *always* going to be competitive, especially something sexy and cool like bicycles. Sure, a smaller company won't have the same economies of scale that a larger company will have. These advantages include more access to capital at significantly lower rates, volume discounts from vendors, better vendor terms, more access to talent, better access to certain types of manufacturing etc etc etc. This is always the case across most industries, no matter how a company prices their products against market demands.
Semi related, haven't a few car companies sold their flagship supercars at a loss just because they can? IE, I know Bugatti did this with the Veyron, I think the NSX ended up a massive loss etc.
Fer sher... But what if........... https://youtu.be/NF0lmraNOMk?feature=shared&t=23
Preaching to the choir. I'm all in on the Gen 1 Sienna, but we're not the average customer
Nothing that "we" ride is basic in their portfolio, think $400 FX with rim brakes. It's an upgrade to discs, and they might still be cable. They sell the hell out of those things.
I haven't worked bike company side, but I've seen quite a few shop accounts and a few friends work in shops and the majority of their money is made on low end bikes, parts and servicing.
High end let's say $5k+ AUD bike sales are just so rare relative to selling 10 kids bikes and helmets etc etc.
The thing I'll say is Trek Giant etc have their work cut out for them in the commuter space.
I'm in Paris currently and the brand Dance is very popular here, very sleek belt drive e-bikes that are all leased, come with theft insurance included etc. They're selling bikes like cars, it's very interesting.
A friend just took a job in London and through a partnered company can salary sacrifice to get a Cowboy ebike as a salary package (it even has upside down forks!). The old business model of selling expensive ebikes to consumers is gone, it's the Fintech revolution of rental payments with servicing and extras included, and to be honest, why would I go with Specialized when everything is bundled for free for a monthly payment?
When I was at Sea Otter last week, I asked a few brands, "What's the state of the bike industry post-COVID?" Most people's responses were broad and not super in-depth, but overall, most people are optimistic looking forward. And the brands that are feeling it the most didn't plan appropriately for the inevitable decline in demand after the COVID boom. Here is the audio from the conversations:
https://www.vitalmtb.com/features/state-mtb-industry-post-covid
Yeah, no doubt that the old model of selling a high-end toy at full price directly to an enthusiastic recreational end-user is not going to translate the same way to a transportation e-bike user. Agreed that the Big Four have a long way to go in tracking down and wooing that customer, but that customer is out there in droves and I'm confident when the Big Four see enough of their sales walking out the door towards other, more creative marketing brands, they'll catch on. My main point is that the bike sector is still very much alive and well in the long term, even if the short term outlook for firms is rough. I think we agree. Like you said, those ebikes are selling like hotcakes in Paris, a city that just put A LOT of political capital into bike lanes.
I loved the questions, but those were the expected public facing answers. PON Bike (Santa Cruz) and Trek are certainly feeling the pain. I have no idea about Transition, though they've made a deliberate choice to grow slower than they could have. Hopefully that means their balance sheet is strong enough to get through this in one piece.
Are these brands optimistic looking forward 2 years? Yeah, probably. But I'd bet my entire 2024 riding season* that they're mostly freaked out, wondering how they're going to survive for the next 18 months until inventory is cleared out and normalcy returns. Brands who run lean, with low debt, and who didn't massively over-order, will probably be OK.
* I'm off the bike, recovering
BAAS [Bicycles As A Service] could be a real thing alongside on-demand hire.
I think for commuters it absolutely will be.
There is a long running trend in economics where products shift from sole purchase upfront to utility payments, it occurs with almost everything. You go as far back as lighting, use to buy candles or wood, now rent electricity usage. Compute for companies, you use to buy your own server, now you hire via AWS or Oracle or someone. Hell even high end clothes the rental market is rapidly growing. I think for something as ubiquitous as urban transport it's inevitable that utility payments will come to dominate.
@Jason_Schroeder the podcast was great, thanks for asking the questions.
I don't think it'll be as bad for most companies as what we expect, I think a lot banked a huge profit from the boom, or maybe a small loss, but they'll just go forward. MTB isn't shrinking they'll survive.
The podcast was great, interesting to here how those companies see the future. There definitely seemed to be three types of answers: 1) no real answer, 2) a general answer about the 'industry', and 3) then a real answer about the company they work for. I think you can take some insight into the how they're doing depending on which category their answer falls in to.
The corporate entities towing the 'wall of positivity' company line whilst offloading their massive overstock at half price (insert this is fine meme).
Interesting to hear so many say the key to growth is to stop gatekeeping (because it's our fault) and welcome new riders.......whilst a midrange bike is now $6k and riding kit is $200 shorts and $100 jerseys.
The pandemic accelerated the crash but the downturn has been coming for a long time and is largley self inflicted by 'the industry' (nefarious amorphous conglomerate that it is /s )
You see a lot of Revels here in Colorado. Just so folks know
There's been some discussion about whether we have an oversaturation of companies making frames/bikes, but surely the pool of brands attempting to sell MTB apparel is even larger. The number of companies selling $75 "tech tees" is ridiculous. I'm sure the up-front investment required to sell a line of clothing is much smaller, and the financial position less precarious as a result. Still seems like a very, very crowded market.
afaik the whole mtb division was in bentonville, at least thats where they were hiring for when i quit right before the mtb launch
All the bike industry stuff in Bentonville has always felt precarious to me. It seems like it all hinges on the Waltons staying interested in bikes. If they loose interest, or when they get older, does the bottom just fall out from under it? I’ve never visited there, so maybe I just have a skewed outsider’s view?
The tourism industry in Bentonville has a large interest in keeping the trails coming. The people who live there (and many have moved there because of the outdoor scene) are invested in continuing keeping the trails coming. I don’t think at this point the Walton’s are a key to the industry there.
ENVE purchased by PV3 Investments - press release below
ENVE Composites Acquired by Utah-Based PV3 Investments
April 30th, 2024 Ogden, Utah - Amer Sports, parent company to ENVE Composites, has announced that ENVE has been acquired by PV3, a Utah-based private investment firm whose owners are avid cyclists and have been familiar with the brand for many years.
Amer Sports’ Chief Operating Officer Michael Hauge Sørensen said, “ENVE has gone through major changes in the past years. The brand has positive momentum, and we see that it has good potential. However, after a thorough strategic evaluation, we have concluded that the next phase of development should happen under new ownership. We believe PV3 is the most suitable owner for ENVE to realize and drive its next growth phase.”
ENVE Composites was founded in 2007 and is one of a small number of U.S. cycling brands to have American manufacturing. The company’s dedication to performance products and in-house manufacturing has allowed it to be an innovation leader in wheels, components, and bicycles while partnering with many of the best athletes in the world.
In 2016, ENVE moved into its Ogden, Utah-based headquarters. The 80,000-square-foot building houses engineering, R&D, manufacturing, sales, marketing, customer service, and finance functions that provide employment opportunities to the local community. PV3 is dedicated to maintaining ENVE’s heritage as a Utah-based manufacturer and leader in composites technology.
“We have confidence in the direction ENVE’s management team are taking the company and we want to continue building the brand’s legacy as a performance leader and U.S. manufacturer while providing the necessary support for continued growth,” said Mark Hancock, Principal of PV3.
ENVE’s General Manager Mike Stimola stated, “This is an opportunity to take ENVE to the next level through local Utah ownership. While the current bicycle market is challenging, ENVE is growing based on our product innovation and professional team partnerships.”
Mike Stimola was brought on by Amer Sports in January 2023 and will continue in his current role. With the acquisition complete, ENVE’s operations will continue as normal.
Closing is expected to take place in the next few weeks and the parties have agreed not to disclose the transaction details.
###
For further details, contact:
Neil Shirley – neil.shirley@enve.com
ENVE Composites, LLC
508 W. Stockman Way
Ogden, UT 84401
About ENVE
Located in Ogden, Utah, ENVE Composites is a manufacturer of handmade carbon fiber bicycle frames, rims, and components. Partnering with the world’s best athletes, ENVE combines the best composite technologies with real-world athlete feedback to provide our customers with the ultimate in performance,
durability, and quality. ENVE designs and manufactures 100% of their rims and the Custom Road Bike in their Ogden, Utah, USA facility.
About Amer Sports
Amer Sports is a global group of iconic sports and outdoor brands, including Arc’teryx, Salomon, Wilson, Peak Performance, and Atomic. Our brands are known for their detailed craftsmanship, unwavering authenticity, and premium market positioning. As creators of exceptional apparel, footwear, and equipment, we pride ourselves on cutting-edge innovation, performance, and designs that allow elite athletes and everyday consumers to perform their best.
With over 11,400 employees globally, Amer Sports’ purpose is to elevate the world through sport. Our vision is to be the global leader in premium sports and outdoor brands. With corporate offices in Helsinki, Munich, Kraków, New York, and Shanghai, we have operations in 40+ countries and our products are sold in 100+ countries. Amer Sports, Inc. shares are listed on the New York Stock Exchange. For more information, visit www.amersports.com.
About PV3
PV3 is the family holding company of Mark Hancock, an experienced and successful entrepreneur and cycling enthusiast.
"'We have confidence in the direction ENVE’s management team are taking the company and we want to continue building the brand’s legacy as a performance leader and U.S. manufacturer while providing the necessary support for continued growth,' said Mark Hancock, Principal of PV3."
Stop me if you've heard this one before...
I'm gonna disagree. For better or worse, Walmart-related money is responsible for Bentonville MTB being a thing. However, I don't think there's a huge risk of that investment drying up or their interest in cycling suddenly stopping. Their headquarters are in Bentonville and they're trying to making as desirable as possible for highly-skilled tech workers (and others) to move there so they can compete with Amazon. That's why they invest in outdoor recreation, art, culture, and education.
Not saying the riding in NWA isn't good. But it wouldn't have the profile it has (or trails, events, etc.) without the direct and indirect interests of the largest company in the world (by revenue).
Just going to leave this here...
+6 Months.
ENVE composites announce management restructure and appoint ex CFO of Kickin'! Sportswear to lead the company.
+12 Months
ENVE to shut Ogden offices and production as company focus on offshore manufacturing with the loss off 150 jobs.
They looked at the company.......saw how they can cut production overheads whilst maintaining the premium price. Will dilute the brand whilst wringing it for as much as they can then dump whats left in 3-5 years.
Maybe they'll have a budget provision this time to buy off Paul Aston.
Surerly ENVE do 90% of their sales in the road space anyway? MTB is small fry for them.
Discussing brand failures, it's interesting to see Haro and Mongoose re-enter the market with affordable aluminium bikes (presuming they make it to public release).
Sounds like you're a shitty boss. Good employees aren't hard to find if you pay them reasonable wages and treat them respectfully. If minimum wage is your starting point you're already all kinds of fucked from the jump.
Insulated ponchos are sick, highly recommended!
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